REPLACING STEERING RACK AXIAL BALL JOINT

[triumph2.5man]

Hi folks. If your Meg has free movement or "play" at the road wheel and it is not the track rod end, suspect a worn axial ball joint on the end of the steering rack. I understand that these wear out quite often and this applies to other Renault models as well. Our 03 Meg has a worn joint on the near side. I wondered if anybody has replaced an axial ball joint WITHOUT USING THE RENAULT SPECIAL TOOLS?? If so how did you manage it? Renault fitters use two tools. One locks on the rack bar and prevents it from twisting (and damaging the pinion) and the other clamps on the "nut" of the axial joint. With these two tools it would be a doddle working from the side of the car! Without them, not so easy. I have sussed out the job and it is necessary to use a stilsons to undo the joint - and a large one at that as the joint is tight and way beyond the gripping power of say a mole grip or LARGE pipe wrench! The "nut" is totally smooth and has no spanner flats at all. Additionally it is necessary to find some way to hold the rack bar to counter the torque of undoing the joint and this makes it a two-handed job. The problem is that the rack end is not accessible as the suspension lower arm is in the way and won't go down far enough to clear even with the lower ball joint disconnected. With the steering wheel hard over, it is impossible to get a wrench on the nut by working from the side (after removal of the road wheel of course). As far as I can see it will be necessary to remove the lower arm and this should (just) give enough room to get the tools in and turn from below. (This is where the pit comes in handy!) Removing the lower arm is not a big issue but just extra time and aggro because of the need to move the rad subframe to one side. If that's the way it's gotta be, so be it!
Any suggestions anybody please?
Mike

[dougieCC]

Goodluck, because mine need doing aswell. Garage wants 2.5 hrs labour to do both sides. Renault charge £80 quid each for the part garage wants £17 quid. Might just let them do it.

Alan

[triumph2.5man]

Don't waste over £60 buying the part from Renault Alan. I got mine via the local Motorfactor and paid £12 for a part made by QH. Yes twelve pounds - and that included VAT!! Since the Renault ones are rubbish the QH ones can hardly be worse! I did not have to quote chassis or model numbers or even year or manufacture. One part fits all Megane 2 both sides. It was not in stock but was delivered next day!
Cheers, Mike

[AlexB]

Looking at p.93 in the manual:
https://www.uas-bg.com/meganii/eng/MR364MEGANE3.pdf

Isn't it possible to use a crowfoot wrench or a stubby spanner to hold the rack in place?

[AlexB]

The other question is that I don't quite understand the role of the washer. Why is it shaped like that? Is it possible that the second special tool applies torque to the washer rather than the ball joint? If so, then one can make such a tool of an appropriate deep socket. Is the washer larger than the outer diameter of the ball joint?

[dougieCC]

Garage says you can damage the pinion, they is a tool on ebay which has different size crows feet, only problem its from the U.S. Cheers for the link Alex

Alan

[Tricky]

i've got to do this on mine, does anyone know the size of crows foot i need to order?

any better pics of work required or where the correct tools can be got from?

thanks.

[triumph2.5man]

Thanks to all who responded so far. I'm sure I will be able to source a tool to hold the rack. In fact illustrations in the Renault manual do show flats on this part (next to that strange washer.) The main problem is getting the "nut" undone because the lower arm is in the way. Now as for that strange washer, I am a bit mystified (but will no doubt be enlightened once I start the job!). The Renault manual says the washer must be replaced which seems reasonable.
When I was sussing out the job the other day, I paid special attention to that washer. What surprised me is the fact that the washer rotates easily on the rack bar and does not seem to be under any tension at all and is therefore not a locking washer, so what is its purpose?
Looks as if I will have to take the megane by the horns and tackle this job toot sweet (as they say at the Renault factory?) so that I can pass the details to other members and satisfy some curiousities!
I had intended to forward a couple of JPGs of the new joint but, being thick and ancient I can't work out how to attach them! Clicking on the IMG box seems to invite a web address but the pics are in "my pictures" folder!
The QH part number is QR3337S.
Cheers, Mike

[davelowe]

Mike,

Go to photobucket.com and open an account. You then upload the images you have to that account and copy the [img] code into your post. It's simpler than it seems. If you get stuck PM (private message) me.

Dave

I would have PM'ed you this message but I don't know if you would have received it(!). No offence intended.

[AlexB]

The manual for Laguna contains detailed drawings of these parts. It is in MR339LAGUNA3.pdf .

It looks like the "washer" shown in the manual for Megane actually includes two parts, whose details are not shown. It is a locking washer and I don't know why it rotates in Mikes case. It can be a result of the fault in question...

The Clio manual says that the washer assembly (2 parts, as an in Laguna) is only present in the cars without power steering.

In both Laguna and Clio they use red Loctite threadlock and a lower torque 50Nm, as opposed to 80Nm in Megane.

[triumph2.5man]

Thanks Alex, I've had a butcher's at the Laguna manual and it seems more comprehensive than the Megane 2 manual. In particular it shows the DIR1305 tool that is used to undo the joint. See how easy it is from the side! It does not show exactly how the tool grips the smooth nut but the instructions refer to item no 1 "ball joint notch" which can be reused if still in good condition. Pass! The worn joint on the car and the new replacement I bought have no sign of notches. They are both as smooth as a baby's derriere! Incidentally there is only one washer in there - a yellow thing.
Advice from another source (from a chap who replaces a lot of these joints) is that I should be able to undo the joint easily using a vice grip in good condition.
The DIR 1305 tool costs around £75, not really worth it for a one-off job. I can't imagine many "Freds in sheds" (like me!) will be doing this job without the correct gear.
When I replace the joint I will of course use Loctite. Swinging on a stilsons (or a vice grip) it is very difficult to gauge the correct tightening pressure of 8nm.
Time I think, that I had another look under the Meg!

This all came about because the Meg front tyres were wearing so badly I had to replace one prematurely - expensive! I checked the track and found it toeing out 7mm. It was then I discovered play in the rack, near side. The play had caused the track to go out of adjustment!
(Thanks Dave for your advice about the images - taken on board mate!)

Cheers, Mike

[AlexB]

Just found the drawings of the special tools:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source ... FriP5Q21uA

[triumph2.5man]

Thanks for that Alex. I did have a look.
Being rather intrigued by these special tools, I took the bull by the horns and headed this morning for my local Renault dealer (where I am not known). I was surprised to receive a warm welcome from the fitters in the workshop who were more than happy to show me the ball joint remover DIR1305 (1). It was heavy and bigger than I thought. About a foot long, there are flats on one end to take a large socket. The "business end" consists of a large cup which fits over the nut of the joint. It is not a tight fit. Inside the cup is what appears to be a roller bearing which is free to swivel. When the tool is turned, the bearing locks onto the nut and the more force that is applied, the tighter the grip. It works both ways and is also used for tightening. Using this tool the job can easily be completed in less time than it has taken you to read this rubbish! I would compare the action of this tool to the one-way clutch used in a Laycock overdrive. (Anybody remember them? I use one every day!) In the overdrive a set of roller bearings apply force to a plain steel shaft, no pawls, no ratchets. Movement in a rearward direction is impossible but easy freewheeling is allowed in the other direction. The more force, the greater the grip.....
I did broach the possibility of borrowing (cheeky) or hiring this tool but this is not company policy. Besides they use it all the time (what does this say about Renault steering racks...?) I was also shown another, much simpler tool which works the same way. The fitter was unable to explain why the yellow washer in our Meg is free to rotate. The new joint compresses this which helps prevent it from coming undone.
Oh, I almost forgot to mention that if you are using the removal tool, you must also use the other one that locks the rack bar as there is no other way of preventing it from turning. Even a small movement could damage the pinion.

Right, having satisfied my curiosity (and, I trust, yours too!), how does this help me in my quest to change the joint?
Not at all really as I won't be lashing out 75 quid to buy the tool for a one-off job.
It is evident that the suspension lower arm will have to be removed. The removal and replacement of the joint will have to be done from below using two stilsons working against each other. One on the end of the rack bar (carefully), the other on the nut. Of course a stilson's wrench works in the same way - the more force, the tighter the grip - did I say that before!
Since I no longer need work against the clock (after retiring, my time no longer costs me money and I won't be charging my daughter anyway!), the fact that the job may take a couple of hours longer is unimportant.
If I do it soon, I will report the result here....

Mike (hope I have not bored you....)

[davelowe]

Fascinating read Mike. Good to learn about the details.

[AlexB]

Thanks, Mike, great reading. I wish I had time to think about it now.

A quick thought. Did you consider buying this tool and then selling it on ebay? Where are they sold, BTW?