Juddering at full throttle
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- Passed Theory
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Juddering at full throttle
I had my car serviced about 3 weeks ago and since then it's developed a judder when I accelerate. It's giving me 2 errors codes, P0313 and P0136. Any ideas?
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
Are your O2 sensor 2 voltage readings swinging back and forward/up and down as expected?
Copied from AutoTap Website...
"A good O2 sensor should produce an oscillating waveform at idle that makes voltage transitions from near minimum (0.1 v) to near maximum (0.9v). Making the fuel mixture artificially rich by feeding propane into the intake manifold should cause the sensor to respond almost immediately (within 100 milliseconds) and go to maximum (0.9v) output. Creating a lean mixture by opening a vacuum line should cause the sensor's output to drop to its minimum (0.1v) value. If the sensor doesn't flip-flop back and forth quickly enough, it may indicate a need for replacement. "
Perhaps its flat-lining and whoever serviced the car pulled a wire. Check all wiring. Strange though because I believe that in this case the fuel would be pegged high and your other code indicates a lean.
Code P0313 refers to an engine misfire under low fuel conditions. Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0313 Copyright OBD-Codes.com
Copied from AutoTap Website...
"A good O2 sensor should produce an oscillating waveform at idle that makes voltage transitions from near minimum (0.1 v) to near maximum (0.9v). Making the fuel mixture artificially rich by feeding propane into the intake manifold should cause the sensor to respond almost immediately (within 100 milliseconds) and go to maximum (0.9v) output. Creating a lean mixture by opening a vacuum line should cause the sensor's output to drop to its minimum (0.1v) value. If the sensor doesn't flip-flop back and forth quickly enough, it may indicate a need for replacement. "
Perhaps its flat-lining and whoever serviced the car pulled a wire. Check all wiring. Strange though because I believe that in this case the fuel would be pegged high and your other code indicates a lean.
Code P0313 refers to an engine misfire under low fuel conditions. Read more at: https://www.obd-codes.com/p0313 Copyright OBD-Codes.com
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
Hi,
l can't do those wave forms etc
but l think you need to check with where it was serviced if it had the fuel filter done.
lf yes l would check the pump pressure, if you undo the line, when ign on it should wollop out.
Obviously be careful and use a suitable can.
lf you can't do it, ask where it was serviced to test the pump.
Check connections on oxygen sensor, apparently somewhere near the cat exhaust.
Good luck, let us know the outcome please.
Bob.
l can't do those wave forms etc
but l think you need to check with where it was serviced if it had the fuel filter done.
lf yes l would check the pump pressure, if you undo the line, when ign on it should wollop out.
Obviously be careful and use a suitable can.
lf you can't do it, ask where it was serviced to test the pump.
Check connections on oxygen sensor, apparently somewhere near the cat exhaust.
Good luck, let us know the outcome please.
Bob.
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
Sure I posted this earlier but it's not appeared!
Anyway, you don't need a fancy scanner just the android torque app or similar and a suitable OBD reader. You can graph the O2 sensors this way.
Anyway, you don't need a fancy scanner just the android torque app or similar and a suitable OBD reader. You can graph the O2 sensors this way.
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
I used one of the bluetooth OBD2 things and got the following results: https://i.imgur.com/YO9Xzj9.png
I imagine the plug they put in cylinder 1 is faulty but that would be strange.
I also think it has another electrical fault because yesterday while on the motorway my ABS, speedo, traction control and power steering all stopped working for 5 seconds and then came back.
I imagine the plug they put in cylinder 1 is faulty but that would be strange.
I also think it has another electrical fault because yesterday while on the motorway my ABS, speedo, traction control and power steering all stopped working for 5 seconds and then came back.
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
Did they just do a service? They didn't do the cam belt or anything like that?
Did they change the coils?
Try swapping coil 1 with one of the others. See if the problem moves.
Does this tool let you look at O2 voltages and fuel trims?
Did they change the coils?
Try swapping coil 1 with one of the others. See if the problem moves.
Does this tool let you look at O2 voltages and fuel trims?
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
The ABS/etc problem is scary indeed. I would be like WTF!
A similar thing happened on mine today (not CC but still a Renault) as I turned left suddenly the steering decided to jerk right. But this was on a slow corner and I was able to control it but it freaked me out, don't trust the car now
A similar thing happened on mine today (not CC but still a Renault) as I turned left suddenly the steering decided to jerk right. But this was on a slow corner and I was able to control it but it freaked me out, don't trust the car now
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
I don't think they changed they coils. Just oil, filters, and plugs.
If it was just an engine misfire I would do it myself but seeing as a lot of other things are odd about it I have booked it in with a specialist for Monday, will update you guys when I know!
If it was just an engine misfire I would do it myself but seeing as a lot of other things are odd about it I have booked it in with a specialist for Monday, will update you guys when I know!
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
Any updates?
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
Sorry yes, they said it was just the ignition coils which seems strange to me so I'm going to replace them when I get back off holiday and see if it cures it.
It should cure the misfires but I just hope somehow it sorts the rest of it.
It should cure the misfires but I just hope somehow it sorts the rest of it.
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
I would swap number 1 with 3 see if the problem moves.
Apparently they die in pairs, 1+2, 3+4.
Glad to hear it's ok though.
Apparently they die in pairs, 1+2, 3+4.
Glad to hear it's ok though.
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
I was going to replace just the misfiring set but I've seen it personally on cylinder 1 so today I'm just going to change the lot, will update you after!
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
It's fixed! Just the ignition coils.
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
So it's mainly fixed, I do need to replace one of the oxygen sensor circuits as I'm still getting error code P0136, does anyone know where that is located?
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Re: Juddering at full throttle
In the exhaust, approx at the end of door. Can't miss it.
Check the wires first because they are a bit exposed.
Easier to get a garage to do it though, they can get welded in due to the heat apparently.
I would check the voltages first however, on your odb thing if possible. It should be capable of reading the O2 voltage from the ECU, if it flat lines below 0.45V then it's possibly kaput.
Did you reset the error codes?
Have you tried the old, "turn it off/on again" trick by disconnecting your battery overnight. Long shot this one!
Check the wires first because they are a bit exposed.
Easier to get a garage to do it though, they can get welded in due to the heat apparently.
I would check the voltages first however, on your odb thing if possible. It should be capable of reading the O2 voltage from the ECU, if it flat lines below 0.45V then it's possibly kaput.
Did you reset the error codes?
Have you tried the old, "turn it off/on again" trick by disconnecting your battery overnight. Long shot this one!
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